Bill Clinton's 1998 Future Predictions
Bill Clinton & Hilary's relationship chart
Aries 21 March - 20 April
Taurus 21April - 21 May
Gemini 22 May - 21 June
Cancer 22 June - 22 July
Leo 23 July - 23 August
Virgo 24 August - 22 September
Libra 23 September - 23 October
Scorpio 24 October - 22
November
Sagittarius 23 November - 21
December
Capricorn 22 December - 20
January
Aquarius 21 January - 18
February
Pisces 19 February - 20 March
Joe's education and other activities
Joe studies Astrology in Egypt
Joe meditates in Nepal & Tibet
Astrology Debateoroscopes
Bruce to Joe
You and all practitioners of Astrology are frauds. I am going to expose you for the manipulative, money-grubbing bastard you are, so don't say you weren't warned.
Bruce
Joe to Bruce
Hey Bruce, What is your problem? Who are you? I don't appreciate your Profanity! If you want to debate like civilized individuals than that's fine. I don't understand Astrology myself. I just know it works for me and many others.
Despite astrology's long history, it still arouses controversy. Is it science or superstition? There continues to be too much disagreement among authorities to say the matter is fully settled. Yet the evidence accumulated to date suggests strongly that it is not a science.
" Does Astrology use the Scientific method. No. But Bruce, please remember
Science and the Scientific method is as good as the tools we have to examine presently to examine a subject or object. Reality is also as good as our descriptions, We can't limit our reality to Webster's definitions. For instance.
Viruses. Before we invented of the Tool, The Electron Microscope.... Viruses did not exist. The Light Microscope could not reveal them. But when the Electron Microscope was invented we were able to see micrometers in size. Scientist believed all Colds were cause by bacteria because that was the only organism that the light microscope could reveal. Viruses however always existed.
Just because we don't have a definition or a tool to examine a subject does not reveal much
Please note that there are many areas of gray in this world that can't be classified. The theory of relativity and quantum mechanics if true will overturn all of our scientific methods and the way we analyze and bring them down. It will give us new definition.
ESP, Psychics, UFO's, the belief and proof of God,etc., Ghost stories, Life in other planets,etc,etc. All can't be fully proved and can't be fully understood. The may not fall into our defined areas of what we call science, but does not reveal if there are true. Some scientific believe that God and the bible to be untrue and naive and to be a myth. I know it is not!.. How... By my soul. That is my tool.. If you don't have God inside of you... The tool... You can not witness or understand him.
Bruce, I'm not relating God and Astrology as similar, but just what you to know that I don't limit myself to definitions.. They only guide me.. They don't fix my belief system. My soul, my heart, my belief and my mind and my proofs.to Universal thought or Webster's Dictionary.. Webster's Dictionary is a guide, but not a law of the universal realities of this world
Brian to Joe
You claim that people obtain PHD's in astrology. From what
>schools? I have never heard of any credible institution awarding a
>doctorate in this. You seem to think that by being a brain and
>pharmacology researcher (both extremely noble pursuits) lend
>credibility to your claims. They do not. You say that you have used astrology to understand the important people in your life. It seems to me that you could learn much more about them by talking to them. Give it a try. You may find that it is much more enlightening than "going to the stars".
Joe To Brian
Studying Astrology, esoteric laws, Parapsychology are no more noble than study medicine... All have their place.. Kepler college on my webpage you can get a degree and you can further your studies at numerous institution.. Credible.. We still can't and probably will never agree that Astrology as credible.. Thus no use to debate this.
Of course speaking to a person is much better than going to the Stars to find ones answers..Today, many are having difficulties understanding themselves.. Women don't understand Men, and Men don't understand Women. They tell us we speak different languages.. Books after Books and self help books proclaim we need help in this area. What one speaks is not always what does or preaches.
Going to God is also another avenue. Meditation is another.. Going to a Psychiatrist is still another! Humans are extremely complex! I have friends and had relationship that I never fully understood until I did their natal chart through Astrology.. It described the inner side. The quiet side of individuals. Remember.... This is only one aspect to that person.. Hey out of the 30 pages of information... I could have gotten one piece of information out of the 30 pages.In other instance, all of the 30 pages helped me totally.
Some people, really don't even know themselves enough to explain why they do things that they do. Some people never go inward and examine who they are, most don't know how to.. So speaking to another is not always reality. Astrology is a guide, not a law. But in my life and many others... It has helped them understand themselves and other, just as Psychologist do for many..... Bruce, Psychology is not a define science. Behavior can't defined by the limitations of the scientific method. One person going to a psychologist for an eating disorder or low self esteem is handled by psychologists very differently.. Also it is individual specific.. Their could never be a doctrine to determine our behavior.. Only tools...
In Astrology one can do a chart by ancient methods. Regression methods, many many ways..different ways. Are they scientific?.. I don't care! If it works and there is some truth that has open one's eyes in a positive fashion.. Then no need to analyze..
The belief in God and the bible, many scientist call the bible a myth. Science can't always be defined.
Gee, I wish I could understand why Astrology describes one so well. Bruce.. I'm not speaking about the Astrology in the New York Times, or the Daily News.. But Astrology done, by the place of birth, time of birth and date of birth of an individual.. When I had my astrology done by another, it had described me 100% I finally felt I was understood. My mother, my girlfriends throughout the years,.;If they had this report done.. They would know what I was about. Yeah I talked and talked, but some don't hear nor do they listen..
Bruce if you have you correct time of birth..Astrology can't be done without the correct and exact time of birth. I would love to do your astrology chart. and give it to you.. And I believe it will describe you. It just has been my experience and millions of others, who truly believe it when the birth stats are correct.. Astrology is accurate in describing one's personality.. Not their future... Personality..
So try it as a test.. Let me do your chart..Of course... Free of charge.
Bruce to Joe
Although your ends are noble and
>sincere, your methods are based on fraud and untruths. If you really
>want to help people, stop the deception. And please stop deceiving
>yourself. This is the saddest thing of all.
>
Joe to Bruce
Astrology can be dangerous.If used the wrong way. And Bruce.. Everything in this world has the ability if used incorrectly to be deceptive.. We all know about Religious fanatics, who claim the bible states that women should be in the house- cooking and cleaning, blacks are meant to be slaves, homosexuals should be punished... An eye for an eye. Some claim the bible gives evidence to this.. We can go on and on.. About deception.. Science and researcher.. can really deceive.. I know.. First hand...Drug companies have been deceiving the American public on many accounts so has our government, the FDA.. the list goes on
We are deceived every day.. One must be careful.. The best way not to be deceived is to have an open mind! When ones mind is open.. You are able to be exposed to many different avenues of thinking...This makes the mind stronger..
Bruce to Joe
You told me to do some research about astrology. I have done a
>lot. I am not merely "spouting off" words and ideas that I have no
>belief or knowledge of.
I believe you, but some things can't be proved or explained by the science we have today.. Maybe one day we will have better tools to explain our worlds mysteries
My wish to you is that you use your very sound and noble
>principle to help others, and leave out the astrological nonsense. I
>know its hard to change your beliefs, but if there is any way I can
>help, let me know.
>
Joe to Brian
I do Astrology as a hobby, I don't claim to be an expert in the field. I believe many who do it are noble and Astrology has help me in understanding difficult people in my life.. Who were unable to communicate and express their ideas.. I use astrology to guide me into one personality.. My scientific background.. Once again does not limit my thinking.. If it did.. I would not believe in God. I would believe in Darwin's Theory of existence..
Bruce, I agree with most of your statements, but also I disagree with them.. You state truths, but within those truths are exceptions..
I thank you for your apology..I hope you will consider to letting me do you chart.. Then we can analyze this discussion further.
This has been Extremely interesting
Sincerely,
Joe
James Randi ( The Amazing Randi) to Joe Weaver
>Joe Weaver: In your posting to Bruce Sutherland, you made an interesting
>statement about PhDs being awarded for astrology. That's a fact I was
>unaware of. Could you provide me with the name of one person, anywhere in
>the world, who has a PhD in astrology?
>And, in passing, I'm sure you're aware that the James Randi Educational
>Foundation (JREF) offers a US$1.1 million prize to any astrologer who can
>show that astrology is valid? If not, then I invite you to provide that
>evidence (together, we can surely devise a simple test of your claim) and
>take away the prize. Details are to be seen on my web page. I look
>forward to your response.
>Bruse: do you hear that empty silence? That's another astrologer lying low
>because he's been challenged to prove that what he offers his clients
>actually works....
> James Randi
>
>James Randi Educational Foundation
>201 SE Davie Blvd.,
>Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316-1815
>U.S.A.
>
>phone: +1 954 467 1112
>fax: +1 954 467 1660
>http://www.randi.org
Joe to the Amazing Randi
I am not silenced by your words or thoughts.. I am however sadden by your beliefs and understand of our world. Everything must be proved to be of value to you. As I spoke with Bruce, The invention of the Electron Microscope gave scientists the tool and the ability to see microorganism we could not imagine existed, for we only had the light microscope. When one was examined with a cold.. The scientist saw only bacteria. And believed only bacteria caused the common cold.. But before the invention of the electron microscope, viruses did not exist in our world because we did not have to tool to see them.. According to some scientist,, God and the bible is a myth.. Darwin's Theory, is how man was created.. How does one prove how the mind works and what a psychologist does. Ghost are they real.. Can't prove it, thus it must be the mind going crazy..
WAKE UP!!!!!!!
All things can't be proven at the time. Our science is limited. Astrologer's like psychologist use many different techniques to determine behavior. Ancient methods, new methods.. All these based on theories and Law. No. We don't even understand how behavior works, how could one devise a theory about it. Future.. Is it possible to travel in the future. Yes mathematically. Can one predict the future.. Our mind can it know the future. Maybe.. Does Quantum mechanics or Quantum theory help us solve these problems.. Well maybe. Our mind is in wave form and could travel at the speed of light, but then. People call it Quantum theory but really they is no theory at all. We simply have no idea of what's going on. All we know is that the math makes predictions that is ALWAYS correct, but we don't know why.
The solution to the problem of quantum mechanics, when we find it. Will evolve a very new thinking about the universe and everything in it. If we ever find the answer.
Newton theories which is what you base your thinking on,..and has been the accepted theory for over 200 years. Newton's theory states that everything is scientifically predictable or discoverable.. This is the world of classic physics. So if it can be proved or discovered than it is not correct.
Quantum mechanic completely blows this apart.. If they are something that you can never know.. Such as the speed and the position of an object or quantum identity.. Then Newton's theory crumbles and is wrong! Quantum mechanics also talks about measured objects or examined objects are different when examined upon.. for example. This quantum identities, Electron seem to be communication with each other faster than light.. WHAT>>> how is this possible.. Scientist don't know.. We don't have the tools to examine
So the belief in God, is in my soul, mind and body. I know he exist, but if you don't know him, you can't feel him and you are without the tools to discover or find him.. Therefore in your world it does not exist. That's kosher. Very sound and logically,.. IT IS JUST NOT MY BELIEFS..
Astrology has proven itself in my reality and in the reality of others. How do you prove something that we don't understand. I don't know! If I did I would take that million dollars and give it to quantum mechanic research. Well maybe not all of it.
Homeopathy..has some scientific article written about it, but it makes no sense.
How can a substance that has no active ingredients have the ability to cure, The essence.. The wave form.. Newtons mechanics collapse here. However in Quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity. Wave and particles are possible and can affect on another, Millions of miles away.. Of course , the object must be traveling faster than the speed of light.. So can it be possible that the planets, the time one was born, the place and the date have any truths to predicting one's behavior.. I Don't know.. Astrology and most Para psychological studies crumbles when examined by our proof theorems.. We are taught that you can never prove anything, but you can disprove something.. This is limiting.
I again don't limit myself to the science that we have to provide me with all the answers. I rely heavily on research, science and technology to guide me, warn me and teach me, but I also realize that there are limits to science, especially with New AGE type thinking, Parapsychology, UFO's, Religion, meditation,etc,etc,etc,.My answer to you is that I don't have the answers to solve you conquest.
I like to keep an open mind. I don't try to prove or reason all of lives answers.. Astrology has helped me understand myself, my lovers, and my friends a lot better and made our bondages stronger.. So hey.. Who cares if it doesn't work for everyone.. It works for me and millions of people it has also worked for.. Is it the power of suggestions.. How can I answer that. The mind can't be examined. We don't even know what thought is.. I can give you webster definition and you will be satisfied and happy.. This is not my reality, it is yours and your friend, Bruce. I don't have a problem with your thought.. It is sound and very logical.. It is also very safe! Stay with it! In your world , if you can't imagine it.. Can't feel it.. Can't examine it....Can't prove it...It does not exist.. Hmmm... thus of course.. for you it is not true. Hey no problem...
To prove Astrology works is not a desire of mine. This is also not my calling in life. I'm glad you have something to keep you busy! Good luck.. Keep the faith
Joe
The Amazing Randi to Joe---------
>From: James Randi <[email protected]>
>To: Joe Weaver <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Astrology
>Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998, 3:55 PM
>
>> Relious [sic] nut... Define that....
>
>Definition: Religious nut = Joe Weaver
>
> Randi.
>Joe to Brian,
BRIAN,
WHY IS THE JAMES RANDI WRITING ME, I WAS DEBATING WITH YOU! WHY DID YOU GIVE HIM MY ADDRESS. I HOPE YOU DID NOT POST THIS ALL OVER THE NEWS GROUPS. I DON'T NEED THE HASSLE. WHAT' UP!!!!!
Brian to Joe
Joe:
>
>I am sorry for any trouble I've caused. I did not post your response
>on any newsgroups or anything like that. I block-copied your message
>and sent it to James Randi, one of the world's foremost skeptics. I
>merely wanted to hear his opinion. He is a professional magician (He
>is known as "The Amaxing" Randi), and he has published a number of
>books on the subject. He is very vocal, and I merely asked for his
>comments. I in no way asked him to reply to you, and did not expect
>him to. I sincerely apologize for this. It was completely out of line
>to include your e-mail, and for this, I also apologize. I did a
>block copy without realizing that your e-mail was included. I should
>have been more careful. I sincerely hope that you are not bombarded
>with annoying e-mail (I don't expect that you will). That was
>definitely not my intent. I can fully understand your mistrust of
>me.now, but I hope this clears matters up. I find our discussions
>very interesting, and give you my word of honor that I will keep any
>correspondance private. (That is, if you still wish to continue this
>discussion--I'll understand if you don't).
>
>Anyway, in response to your previous query, I was born at 10:37 PM,
>27 April 1969.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bruce
>Brian to Joe
Joe: I received the astrology chart you sent me. Thank you. It's
>quite a bit of info, so it may be a few days before I can comment on
>it.
>
> Bruce
End of debate.
Brian never wrote again??????????????????
>
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